Thanks for the bail out and tax breaks

[clover]

Thanks for saving our companies....thanks for the nice tax breaks.....we can use that money to build our businesses offshore......and the labor is cheaper!

"There's a huge difference between what is good for American companies versus what is good for the American economy," says Scott.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OVERSEAS_HIRING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-12-28-07-59-38

"Harvard Business School Dean Nitin Nohria worries that the trend could be dangerous. In an article in the November issue of the Harvard Business Review, he says that if U.S. businesses keep prospering while Americans are struggling, business leaders will lose legitimacy in society. He exhorted business leaders to find a way to link growth with job creation at home."

[ragman]

Yep, we should tax the corporations more that will get them to return.    Second highest tax rate in the world on Corporations, do you think maybe that could be a reason they invest overseas?  Japan the highest has been stagnant for how many years???   

How about a tax break to repatriate some overseas money? 

[ragman]

This sums up some of the problems which is keeping unemployment high.   

Greg
2:08 PM Dec 26, 2010
•(4) vote this comment up
•(0) vote this comment down
•
Google....THE U.S. PATH TO COLLAPSE.....September 1, 2010.........Leading Chinese economists are now calling Japanese debt less risky than U.S. debt and with the Japanese savings rate in decline, the U.S. will soon have nobody left to borrow from. ~~~~~ The only option will be monetization and already the Federal Reserve is getting ready to buy $10 billion to $30 billion per month in U.S. treasuries to keep its balance sheet at inflated levels. ~~~~~ There are now 50 million Americans on Medicaid, with annual Medicaid costs rising 36% over the past two years to $273 billion. ~~~~~ The recently enacted health care bill will add 16 million more Americans to Medicaid beginning in 2014, but the U.S. government will likely go bust by then. ~~~~~ It is impossible to have an economic recovery when jobless benefits are encouraging Americans to stay unemployed. U.S. unemployment insurance spending has nearly quadrupled since 2007 to $160 billion annually. ~~~~~ Even food stamp costs have surged 80% over the past two years to $70 billion annually.~~~~~ Once Americans get used to receiving and relying on government entitlement programs, it is hard to wean them off of them. ~~~~~ The National Inflation Association has been hearing reports from members with friends who say they will only "come out of retirement" if they can find a job that pays $25 per hour or more, because with anything less it wouldn't be worth losing their jobless and food stamp benefits. ~~~~~ Americans expect to receive their jobless benefits forever and we are sure Obama will continue to extend them leading up to the 2012 election. ~~~~~ There are now countless warning signs all around us on a daily basis that the U.S. is headed for a complete societal collapse. ~~~~~ When asked the question if America was headed towards a total moral, spiritual and financial unraveling, NIA received an overwhelming response from its members. ~~~~~ The response we received was so strong that we are now in the beginning production of a documentary about the greatest modern day empire ever known now teetering on the brink collapse. NIA believes this documentary will appeal to a very mainstream audience and help open up the world's eyes to the truth about the path this country is on..........



See full article from DailyFinance: http://srph.it/fws96r

[clover]

Yep, we should tax the corporations more that will get them to return.    Second highest tax rate in the world on Corporations

First of all they don't pay taxes:

The report, as expected, created a huge outcry in the media as well as among the general public when it detailed the taxes paid by corporations in the US last year. Truly, Exxon is not alone. GE submitted a mammoth 24,000-page tax return and managed to avoid income tax for profits worth $10.3 billion last year.

Likewise many companies though benefiting from corporate welfare in the U.S., use tax shelter practices to send their earnings overseas. According to a report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), 2008, two out of three US companies paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005. The report had covered 1.3 million corporations in the US with collective sales of $2.5 trillion.

http://www.oil-price.net/en/articles/How-Exxon-paid-zero-tazes-in-2009.php

But they didn't mind talking bail out money and investing in new facilities overseas where they could take advantage of the cheapest labor in the world.  Keep defending them with that delusional right wing mantra that will eventually turn america into a third world country.  Big business make incredible citizens........now if they'd just do us a favor and move out of the country for good.  They sure as hell aren't doing shit for America.  Oh yeah....they created 1.4 million jobs overseas and filled less than a million here..................that's ok.............we just want to know what their priorities are.

[clover]

This sums up some of the problems which is keeping unemployment high.  

Greg
2:08 PM Dec 26, 2010
•(4) vote this comment up
•(0) vote this comment down
•
Google....THE U.S. PATH TO COLLAPSE.....September 1, 2010.........Leading Chinese economists are now calling Japanese debt less risky than U.S. debt and with the Japanese savings rate in decline, the U.S. will soon have nobody left to borrow from. ~~~~~ The only option will be monetization and already the Federal Reserve is getting ready to buy $10 billion to $30 billion per month in U.S. treasuries to keep its balance sheet at inflated levels. ~~~~~ There are now 50 million Americans on Medicaid, with annual Medicaid costs rising 36% over the past two years to $273 billion. ~~~~~ The recently enacted health care bill will add 16 million more Americans to Medicaid beginning in 2014, but the U.S. government will likely go bust by then. ~~~~~ It is impossible to have an economic recovery when jobless benefits are encouraging Americans to stay unemployed. U.S. unemployment insurance spending has nearly quadrupled since 2007 to $160 billion annually. ~~~~~ Even food stamp costs have surged 80% over the past two years to $70 billion annually.~~~~~ Once Americans get used to receiving and relying on government entitlement programs, it is hard to wean them off of them. ~~~~~ The National Inflation Association has been hearing reports from members with friends who say they will only "come out of retirement" if they can find a job that pays $25 per hour or more, because with anything less it wouldn't be worth losing their jobless and food stamp benefits. ~~~~~ Americans expect to receive their jobless benefits forever and we are sure Obama will continue to extend them leading up to the 2012 election. ~~~~~ There are now countless warning signs all around us on a daily basis that the U.S. is headed for a complete societal collapse. ~~~~~ When asked the question if America was headed towards a total moral, spiritual and financial unraveling, NIA received an overwhelming response from its members. ~~~~~ The response we received was so strong that we are now in the beginning production of a documentary about the greatest modern day empire ever known now teetering on the brink collapse. NIA believes this documentary will appeal to a very mainstream audience and help open up the world's eyes to the truth about the path this country is on..........



See full article from DailyFinance: http://srph.it/fws96r

There are 50 million people on medicaid, an increase of 18% since 2006.  Blame that shit on Obama?  2007 was the beginning of the depression, that just now leveled off.  Blame that on Obama too.
You don't qualifiy for medicaid unless you are poor.....so America has 50 million living below poverty.  That's 1 in 6.  That might have something to do with 14 million unemployed.  but we could end that if we just cut off unemployment insurance and forced them to take a job.  WHAT F%$KING JOBS??  Do you blind bast&#ds read the news?  

then American business creates 1.4 million jobs over seas and fill less than a million here.

so give them tax breaks.........but THEY AIN'T COMING BACK.  Cheap foreign lablor means higher profits.

TAX THE POOR, FEED THE RICH!

WELCOME TO THIRD WORLD AMERICA........you created it......enjoy it.

[ragman]

They sure as hell aren't doing shit for America.  Oh yeah....they created 1.4 million jobs overseas and filled less than a million here..................that's ok.............we just want to know what their priorities are.

Clover, in a Capitalistic system businesses are in business to make money.  Creating jobs is byproduct of a successful business but is not the reason they are in business.  Now when you create a mountain of regulations, laws and lawsuits you create an environment which makes it more difficult to profit.  Some businesses have the ability to be mobile, so guess what?  They go where they can make money and operate efficiently.  On top of that you have a President who dislikes business, demonises business and would like to regulate every move they make.  I'm of the opinion that this recession would not be as bad as it has been except for the present administration.   

With the spending that has been done in the last two years you can expect more problems and high unemployment ahead.  And yes I'll give Bush some credit for this also with the help of the Dems who where in control of the purse strings.    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/111th-congress-added-more-debt-first-100
In fact, the 111th Congress not only has set the record as the most debt-accumulating Congress in U.S. history, but also has out-stripped its nearest competitor, the 110th, by an astounding $1.262 trillion in new debt.

During the 110th Congress—which, according to the Clerk of the House, officially convened on Jan. 4, 2007 and adjourned on Jan. 4, 2009--the national debt increased $1.957 trillion. When that Congress adjourned less than two years ago, it claimed the record as the most debt-accumulating Congress in U.S. history. As it turned out, however, its record did not last long.

The $3.22 trillion in new federal debt run up during the 111th Congress exceeds by 64 percent the $1.957 trillion in new debt run up during the 110th.

Although the 111th Congress cast its last vote on Dec. 22, it will not officially adjourn until next week.

Democrats controlled both the House and Senate in the 110th and 111th Congresses.

The 108th Congress ($1.159 trillion in new debt) and 109th ($1.054 trillion in new debt) take third and fourth place among all U.S. Congresses for accumulating debt. In both these Congresses, Republicans controlled both the House and Senate.

Still, the $3.22 trillion in new debt accumulated during the record-setting 111th Congress is more than three times the $1.054 trillion in new debt accumulated by the last Republican-majority Congress (the 109th) which adjourned on Dec. 8, 2006.

[deadserious]

Clover, in a Capitalistic system businesses are in business to make money. 

The US is not a capitalistic society.  We are a unfortunately a corporatist society.  You cannot claim capitalism when government favors individual businesses and industries over others.  You can go all the way back the founding of the Department of Agriculture and the birth of farm subsidies for the beginning of the end of capitalism.

I'm all for providing the appropriate environment for business to make money.  But taxes and associated loopholes are only the beginning of the problem.  We must end corporate welfare to level the playing field in order for capitalism to work it's magic.

[clover]

Now when you create a mountain of regulations, laws and lawsuits you create an environment which makes it more difficult to profit.  Some businesses have the ability to be mobile, so guess what?  They go where they can make money and operate efficiently.  

Here's an example of that efficiency you were talking about.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=shnghai+air+pollution&view=detail&id=22B0D5ED8B4C75190EA142E49ED192C1131F7314&first=1&FORM=IDFRIR&qpvt=

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=pollution+in+china+pictures&view=detail&id=DF47D82D40F0E2D97CB3B77972E923A43D16D861&first=1&FORM=IDFRIR&qpvt=pollution+in+china+pictures

Those nasty regulations about clean air and water.   

[ragman]

Mike,  There you go off the deep end again.  Of course some regulation is necessary but there are thousands of examples of inefficient regulations that cost much more than the consequences.    Let us take the proposed cap and trade regulations as an example.  Unproven theories which will hammer US Industry. I know passage of the law is not going to happen but this administration has found more than one way to skin a cat and will do it administratively.   

The China example you gave is extreme, they have no environmental standard that I've ever heard of.  Back in the 70's we had to adhere to some pretty strict (at least at that time) standards on opacity limits.  China isn't even at that level yet.    

We have to have some balance to regulations and think about cost benefit. 

[ragman]

Well maybe OTO is considering it?  Maybe I should be an advisor for him. 

Yep, we should tax the corporations more that will get them to return.    Second highest tax rate in the world on Corporations, do you think maybe that could be a reason they invest overseas?  Japan the highest has been stagnant for how many years???   

How about a tax break to repatriate some overseas money? 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-29/dodging-repatriation-tax-lets-u-s-companies-bring-home-cash.html
Dodging Repatriation Tax Lets U.S. Companies Bring Home Multinational Cash

At the White House on Dec. 15, business executives asked President Obama for a tax holiday that would help them tap more than $1 trillion of offshore earnings, much of it sitting in island tax havens.

The money -- including hundreds of billions in profits that U.S. companies attribute to overseas subsidiaries to avoid taxes -- is supposed to be taxed at up to 35 percent when it’s brought home, or “repatriated.” Executives including John T. Chambers of Cisco Systems Inc. say a tax break would return a flood of cash and boost the economy.

[clover]

Having a palatial home in Shanghai isn't quite like having a palatial home in the Hamptons now is it?

They game the tax system and create mountains of cash off shore and then want to bring it back tax free.

They want us to believe that cash will create US jobs?

More likely, that cash will be used to buy up smaller companies and ensure a larger monopoly without creating one job here.


I would think that every dollar they invest back in America in capital improvement projects could be tax exempt......and that is still a very generous offer to Americans that turned their backs on their country.

[ragman]

I would think that every dollar they invest back in America in capital improvement projects could be tax exempt......and that is still a very generous offer to Americans that turned their backs on their country.

See that is the problem.  Capital expendures have to be capitalized and depreciated over years.  In the meantime if you bring back the cash it is subject to a 35% tax in that year.  Yes, the smart tax people are finding ways around it in some instances but that is because our tax system is so complex and the government tries to reward certain behavior for certain industries.  

To me it is common sense that if you are a company sitting on a large amount of cash which is in the USA eventually you will use that cash to increase your companies profit.  ie expand, ie hire more workers    

Of course you can take the attitude that business is evil and the hell with them, they must be regulated and punished and required to pay more, more, more.  That is about how OTO has addressed the problem for the last 2 years and what has that done for unemployment?  It is great for firing up you Liberals, though.  

[clover]

The problem with Republicans is that they don't read so well   What I said was that the capital expenditures would be tax free.....that means tax free.

In rebuttal to your assertion that business is evil and should be punished.

They drive down the freeways paid by tax dollars
They enjoy the protection of their investment guaranteed by our armed forces.
They drink the water and boat in man made lakes paid for by tax dollars
Their families grow up breathing clean air (not Shanghai air) and eating food that isn't irrigated with grey water.
etc. etc. etc.

THEY NEED TO PAY THEIR OWN WAY.

The poor live on welfare, and the rich don't pay taxes and I'm sick of paying for both of them.

After reading the article you posted: 
The Republicans always protect big business because they create jobs.....the problem is those jobs are IN CHINA.!!!

[ragman]

The problem with Republicans is that they don't read so well   What I said was that the capital expenditures would be tax free.....that means tax free.

 

I would think that every dollar they invest back in America in capital improvement projects could be tax exempt

If that is in reference to me Mike I can read fine.  Is it could or is it would?    Right now under present law, it is neither.

In rebuttal to your assertion that business is evil and should be punished.

They drive down the freeways paid by tax dollars
They enjoy the protection of their investment guaranteed by our armed forces.
They drink the water and boat in man made lakes paid for by tax dollars
Their families grow up breathing clean air (not Shanghai air) and eating food that isn't irrigated with grey water.
etc. etc. etc.

THEY NEED TO PAY THEIR OWN WAY.

The poor live on welfare, and the rich don't pay taxes and I'm sick of paying for both of them.

  Currently corporations pay a 35% corporate rate. (again the 2nd highest rate in the world)  Then the people who own and work for the corporations who use the highways and lakes pay the current income tax rate. (the 2nd time this money gets taxed) In addition the public corporations pay dividends and cause stock prices to rise in IRA accounts which support old retired guys like me. 
 Like it or not we live in World Wide economy where capital will go where it is treated kindly.  The US does not treat capital too kindly, so it leaves.  Money is money and it knows no emotions and has little loyalty. If I had to guess I would say that most US Corporations would rather stay in the USA but there is leakage of capital due to more favorable treatment overseas. Of course you can try to control this with Socialism but the track record isn’t too good and the people end up suffering.   

[deadserious]

Currently corporations pay a 35% corporate rate. (again the 2nd highest rate in the world) 

Speaking as an owner of one of those corporations, yes we pay 35%, and I do believe that we pay is too much, but what we pay 35% on is probably not what you would expect.

A corporation that is not profitable or makes a small profit is paying nothing or close to nothing in tax after allowable deductions and exemptions.

And conversely, a corporation that is extremely profitable also pays nothing or close to nothing in tax thanks to legal loopholes and foreign shell corporations.

The problem is that the income tax is only paid by the select few corporations that fall in between.  These are the businesses that are so big and profitable that they owe something, but not big and profitable enough to take advantage of the loopholes that the big guys like do.

And this illustrates exactly the problem with an income tax in general.  The only person it really hurts is the person who is either playing fair or in the unfortunate position to be just successful enough. 

On the personal income tax side, the low income people pay nothing because of the various deductions, allowances and credits and the rich pay nothing because they have enough to take advantage of the loopholes.  The only one to get screwed is the people in the middle... and as a small business owner, I've been the one screwed in both corporate and personal.

The only way to seriously remove the disincentives of an income tax is to get rid of it all together.  It's a tax built on a flawed premise, plain and simple.