Operation Fast and Furious

[ragman]

Why hasn't the lame stream media picked up the drum beat to get to the bottom of the so called "Operation Fast and Furious?"  Of course I know why.  They are not big fans of the 2nd amendment; the Attorney General Eric Holder should be fired over it; and it is just a general embarrassment to the administration.  Now after the head of ATF has been fired and the Atty. Gen. of Arizona has been replaced we find that the replacement was involved in the operation also.  What the hell is going on here?     How could they have allowed about 1700 firearms to be sold to known gun runners? During the sale process ATF was notified by the gun shops and where told to allow the sales even though the business owners where telling them this wasn't right.  If it wasn't for ATF whistle blowers who put their jobs on the line this might still be going on.  The incident which caused the death of a border guard of course brought all of this to a head.     

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/03/robert-farago/obama-on-atf-gunwalker-scandal-i-didnt-know-about-smuggled-guns/
 

Right. Because there’s no way that the ATF would keep the President of the United States and the Attorney General in the dark about the main thrust of its firearms interdiction program—for which they received an extra $200m or so—and tell the Mexicans what they were up to. Because shhhh. It’s a secret!
 
We can now conclude that President Obama isn't the ringleader in a large criminal conspiracy perpetuated by a federal law enforcement agency against an ally. I repeat: the buck doesn't stop there. But this exchange does reveal the Prez and his number one law enforcement guy as disconnected and incompetent.
 
Now, shall we talk about the cover-up?

It is looking more and more that this was orchestrated from the top to embarrass gun owners and bring about additional gun legislation.  If congress didn't change parties last election you would not be hearing much about this because they have been stone walling the investigation from the start.   
I guess this is just more of what you will only hear when you watch a channel that is "Fair and Balanced"    

[rykat]

"We can now conclude that President Obama isn't the ringleader in a large criminal conspiracy perpetuated by a federal law enforcement agency against an ally. I repeat: the buck doesn't stop there. But this exchange does reveal the Prez and his number one law enforcement guy as disconnected and incompetent"

Oh really? disconnected? Perhaps not.
The beginning?
Of the end?

[ragman]

Ry, Now I'm hearing that emails have been found which where addressed to Obama's National Security Advisers telling of the operation.  But Numb Nuts or his Atty. Gen. Holder had no knowledge of this operation??  They where innocently playing golf that day and didn't get the message, I guess.  I think there where a lot of messages they didn't get. 

Chickens are coming home to roost.    Chicago dirty style politics where tried against gun owners and it back fired.  Why else would you allow weapons to be transported illegally into Mexico?  Do you remember the mumblings about how we need additional gun control laws to prevent guns from getting to Mexico, prior to this breaking?  Oh and by the way, why wasn't the authorities in Mexico informed of this operation?

[clover]

What a horrendous crime by the ATF (LOL).......you'd think Obama was the head of the ATF instead of the whole god damn country

An administration source describes the emails as colleagues sharing information about a gun trafficking initiative. On July 28, 2010 O'Reilly emails Newell: "Just an informal 'how's it going?" Newell replied by reporting good progress in efforts to stop gun trafficking to Mexico, and gave specific anecdotes. "This is great; very informative," O'Reilly replies.

In another email to O'Reilly at the White House on Aug. 18, 2010, Newell expresses frustration with the US Attorney's request to have agents in trafficking cases "physically inspect the firearms (that turn up) in Mexico... to show the jury that (it) was part of a trafficking scheme." Newell complains, "Other districts don't require this but hey it's Arizona." Newell went on to explain the difficulties in getting Mexico to cooperate on its end. "...it won't take many more times of having doors slammed in (agent's) faces by the Mexicans before they give up..." The US Attorney for Arizona Dennis Burke resigned this week. His lead prosecutor in Phoenix who had advised ATF on Fast and Furious has been moved out of the criminal division.

The emails taken alone neither prove nor disprove whether White House officials knew that ATF was monitoring as weapons were sold to suspected gun traffickers, then let on the street without interdiction. However, an administration source vehemently denies anybody at the White House knew the controversial tactic known as "letting guns walk," was being used. "These e-mails exchanges show nothing more than an effort to give local color to a policy initiative that was designed to give more resources to help with the border problem. They don't even contain the name 'Fast and Furious' until February 2011." The administration official adds: "The emails validate what has been said previously, which is no one at the White House knew about the investigative tactics being used in the operation, let alone any decision to let guns walk.."

The three email chains showing ATF made contact with White House officials are from: July 28- Aug. 11, 2010; Aug. 18, 2010; and Feb. 11, 2011. The third chain happened after the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in Arizona. Two weapons ATF allegedly let "walk" were found at the murder scene. That case is not referenced in the emails. The administration has not said whether the emails represent the only written White House communications on the case.

This ain't the run of the mill  Iran Contra crime from a Republican administration....just run of the mill beauracracy

Here's a little film clip from FOX news

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201109020015

1700 guns??  how about this!

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/09/02/16000-guns-lost-from-manufacturing-plants-in-last-2-5-years-report/

[rykat]

no need to read,
mediamatters and rawstory=shit stew!

[clover]

I know a brainwashed FOX puritan like yourself can't read any other news.....but the best part is that the mediamatters clip was from FOX NEWS 

[rykat]

"but the best part is that the mediamatters clip was from FOX NEWS"
and.........................................ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz -wtfc's  

  ooooooh, I like this little guy!
 
  
 

[ragman]

The report will be used by the Brady Campaign to lobby for stricter gun laws. It isn't in the interest of safety to allow the lack of security and accountability to continue, Vice said.

"This is something completely in the control of gun manufacturers," he said. "This is their own inventory and yet they allow thousands of guns to leave their inventory without background checks or records of sale, rather than take simple steps to control their own guns and their own facilities."

So this is their statement in defence of allowing almost 1700 weapons to be sold to gunrunners which where in the business of getting guns to Mexico??

ah, what about ATF knowing allowing the sale of weapons to person or persons supplying such to the Drug Cartel?    This bullshit and anyone with any brains would know that this is wrong.)  Now why was it allowed?  I've already answered that; to allow this administration the rouge's to come forward with laws that attack the 2nd amendment.  Your red herring does not allow for what actually happened.    

Numb Nuts has been caught with his pants down.  Now let's see where it goes from here.   Hopefully it will distract him from what is beginning to look like his deliberate attempt to wreck the economy of the USA.  I've heard this many time and thought they where a little over the edge but now I'm not so sure.    This President is a TOTAL disaster.  God help us. (Mike does that last sentence make me a religious zealot?) Never mind count me in, some one has to make a stand to get this country back to its' origins.  

[ragman]

The story you wrote about from rawstory is pure bullshit from the Brady Center.  The 17,000 figure of weapons with serial numbers where weapons with defects which where never completed, weapons purposely made for government security forces and accounting errors.  It is an extremely rare event to have a US manufactured weapon out there without a serial number.  It just doesn't happen.

The ATF and the Police in the USA both support the Tiahrt Amendment and that is why Obama extented the law. In the one incident pointed out involving weapons of this sort the firm was fined $600k. That should be the deterrent.  The reason for the Tiahrt Amendent are below and can easily be documented.  Brady Center is extreme left looking for an issue to attack the 2nd Amendent. They would love to have the data so they could use it for political purposes just like this bullshit story.    

There are good reasons for keeping this information confidential, and for strengthening the Tiahrt Amendment and making it permanent:

Releasing the information serves no useful purpose. The Congressional Research Service has repeatedly said "firearm trace data may be biased" and "cannot be used to test for statistical significance between firearm traces in general and the wider population of firearms available to criminals or the wider American public."[1] These limitations exist because the "tracing system is an operational system designed to help law enforcement agencies identify the ownership path of individual firearms. It was not designed to collect statistics."[2]
Traced guns aren’t always “crime guns”; firearms may be traced for reasons unrelated to any armed crime. The BATFE trace request form lists “crime codes” for traffic offenses and election law violations, among many others.
Trace information remains available for law enforcement use. The FY 2007 version of the Tiahrt amendment ensures that trace data is available to federal, state, and local agencies "in connection with and for use in a bona fide criminal investigation or prosecution" or for use in administrative actions by BATFE—which is, of course, the principal agency responsible for overseeing the conduct of federally licensed firearms dealers.The language and history of the Gun Control Act are clear: Congress always intended to keep this information confidential, and to allow its use only for legitimate law enforcement purposes. The firearms trace database includes information such as the agency requesting a gun trace, the location from which the gun was recovered, and the identity of the dealer and original retail buyer.
Both BATFE and the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP) oppose release of trace data. In fact, BATFE has fought for years in the federal courts to keep the databases confidential, because they contain information (such as names of gun buyers) that could jeopardize ongoing investigations—not to mention law enforcement officers’ lives. For example, a suspected gun trafficker could search databases for names of "straw purchasers" he had used to buy handguns, or for traces requested on guns he had sold. That information could lead him to names of officers, informants and other witnesses against his crimes. (View commentary by FOP President Chuck Canterbury from April 24, 2007)
Even the current language has allowed too many disclosures of sensitive information. For instance, anti-gun groups and the media have repeatedly received confidential trace data from government "leaks." And Judge Jack Weinstein of the Federal District Court in Brooklyn, who presides over New York City's lawsuit against the firearms industry, has "creatively" ruled that the riders do not protect the information that Congress so clearly intended to protect.

[rykat]

Jim,
"Numb Nuts has been caught with his pants down.  Now let's see where it goes from here.   Hopefully it will distract him from what is beginning to look like his deliberate attempt to wreck the economy of the USA.  I've heard this many time and thought they where a little over the edge but now I'm not so sure.    This President is a TOTAL disaster.  God help us. (Mike does that last sentence make me a religious zealot?) Never mind count me in, some one has to make a stand to get this country back to its' origins."

One could now deduce that had it not been for the Tea Party and the last Congressional elections this country would already, in effect, be finished.
Oh that Rev Wright prediction,"chickens coming home to roost" is so spot on!!!!!            
 
 
 

[clover]

The story you wrote about from rawstory is pure bullshit from the Brady Center.  The 17,000 figure of weapons with serial numbers where weapons with defects which where never completed, weapons purposely made for government security forces and accounting errors.  It is an extremely rare event to have a US manufactured weapon out there without a serial number.  It just doesn't happen.

If you can prove that statement please do.  Otherwise it's bullshit. 
According to the ATF report, page 12, the Rawstory article is correct and verified by documentation

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/fipb-presentations/Importer%20Association%20August%202011%20Final.pdf

[rykat]

http://teapartyorg.ning.com/video/fast-and-furious-criminal-complaint-against-obama-and-holder

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd6iO9lHTRo

 

[ragman]

Ry, that second video is an excellent one to allow people to have a basic understanding of what happened here.  Of course there is much more to this including the cover up right from the start. 

Let's see now allow and assist 1700 weapons to enter Mexico with no way to track them once over the border in an effort to stop gun trafficking which a lot of people say was a very small problem and with enforcement of present laws could have been dealt with.  The gun shop owners where more than willing to help.  This was madness and it doesn't take much to see what the true objective was. 

Here I'll post it again.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd6iO9lHTRo

[clover]

that second video is an excellent one to allow people to have a basic understanding of what happened here.................. ..........................a lot of people say was a very small problem and with enforcement of present laws could have been dealt with.......................... . ...The gun shop owners were more than willing to help.........................................  This was madness............................... and it doesn't take much to see what the true objective was.

Holy Shit!!!  

The orders must have come all the way from the top!!!!

We got the tar baby now!!!!!

 

[rykat]

I would prefer got the commie now!!!!!!!