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Author Topic: Operation Fast and Furious  (Read 4468 times)
ragman
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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2011, 10:41:12 AM »

that second video is an excellent one to allow people to have a basic understanding of what happened here.................. ..........................a lot of people say was a very small problem and with enforcement of present laws could have been dealt with.......................... . ...The gun shop owners were more than willing to help.........................................  This was madness............................... and it doesn't take much to see what the true objective was.


Holy Shit!!!  

The orders must have come all the way from the top!!!!

We got the nigger now!!!!!

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
OK fellow board members, I been saying for weeks that Mike is coming unglued.  I think his last post verifies this. The pressure of being so wrong is getting to him.  I'll admit this chat wouldn't be so interesting without his nutty assumptions. You make it a little interesting.  Mike, Numb Nuts is out of here in 429 days.  The Teaparty is here to stay (at least for a while) and it looks like the dems will only have minority status in all three branches of government due to their fine performance for the last 2 1/2 years +.  The dreams of socialism are in trouble  Mike, come to grips with it.  Wink

PS it is nothing about racism and never has been, it is about competence and performance.  Shocked  He isn't even smart enough to put people around him that might have guided him though this.  Only left wing loonies need apply.  Grin
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Jim
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clover
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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2011, 07:15:49 AM »

You gotta quit smokin that shit Jim...it's makin you delusional Grin

Now let me see.....this is what the Republicans are gonna sell to the public.

14 million unemployed........tough shit
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/09/02/right-wing-commentator-poor-people-voting-is-un-american/

0% taxes for corporations
http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/09/bachmann-open-to-a-0-corporate-tax-rate/

End the minimum wage.
http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/09/fox-guest-for-economy-to-recover-get-rid-of-minimum-wage/

Cut medicare and Social Security.
Moreover, as Fox Business Channel host John Stossel pointed out recently on his show, even among Tea Party supporters, 62 percent believe entitlements are worth the costs, compared to 33 percent of those who said entitlements are not worth it. This suggests hypocrisy among the movement that is most vocal about reducing the size of government.
http://reason.com/poll#article_151941

And the sheeple will party in the streets and vote unanimously for the Republicans!!    LOL  quit it....that's too funny!  

Obama will win by 14 million votes.......the same 14 million the Republicans threw to the wolves Wink

« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 07:48:31 AM by clover » Logged

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rykat
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« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2011, 09:08:34 AM »

"And the sheeple will party in the streets and vote unanimously for the Republicans!!"

And when the sheep finished voting in 08, they could have just followed one another over the cliff then instead of waiting  Cheesy
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ragman
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2011, 06:41:41 AM »

Ok, it is time for a special prosecutor, past time.  Angry  Not only did the ATF allow straw buyers to purchase firearms and allow them across the border to Mexico.  Now we find out that US Taxpayers paid for some of these firearms. The cartels where not very interested in buying arms from the gun shops due to present laws, so we had to actually buy them for them.  Huh Eric Holders has got to go.  All of this, many lives lost and for what?  To try to undermine the 2nd amendment and get tougher laws.  This corrupt group has got to go.

http://nation.foxnews.com/fast-and-furious/2011/09/26/government-used-taxpayer-funds-buy-sell-weapons-during-fast-and-furious

Quote
Not only did U.S. officials approve, allow and assist in the sale of more than 2,000 guns to the Sinaloa cartel -- the federal government used taxpayer money to buy semi-automatic weapons, sold them to criminals and then watched as the guns disappeared.
 
This disclosure, revealed in documents obtained by Fox News, could undermine the Department of Justice's previous defense that Operation Fast and Furious was a "botched" operation where agents simply "lost track" of weapons as they were transferred from one illegal buyer to another. Instead, it heightens the culpability of the federal government as Mexico, according to sources, has opened two criminal investigations into the operation that flooded their country with illegal weapons.
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Jim
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clover
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2011, 06:50:16 AM »

Another twisted and slanted article by the Reich's propaganda center....FOX News.  Ragman...you'll have to use a different source to convince me.  Everyone knows FOX is the hand puppet of the far right and not credible.
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ragman
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« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2011, 06:57:06 AM »

It shouldn't take long to get a different source.  Maybe the LA Times, they are usually about a week or two late to the table but at least lately they have been getting there.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-atf-guns-20110912,0,7686272,full.story
Quote
Gun store owner had misgivings about ATF sting
When federal agents with Operation Fast and Furious told Andre Howard to sell weapons to illegal purchasers, he complied, but he feared someone would get hurt. Then a border agent was shot.
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Jim
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clover
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« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2011, 07:19:12 AM »

I'm still looking for the supposed "crime" committed by the ATF.  What is it?  Don't they set up drug and gun "stings" all the time?  Help me out here.
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ragman
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« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2011, 12:40:28 PM »

That's easy.  Yes, law enforcement set up stings all the time and here is the difference. 

1. The stings are done to uncover illegal activity and leads to arrests.  In this case after allowing almost 2,000 weapons to be bought (some of which they paid for with taxpayer money) they allowed all the straw men to walk and recovered zero weapons until they where used in the commission of a crime. After the fact and when there was an outcry they did a few arrests.

2. They allowed weapons that where intended for another jurisdiction to go to that jurisdiction (Mexico) without notifying Mexico of what they where doing.  Once the weapons crossed the border that had absolutely no way to track or arrest the criminals involved.

3. Motive.....Now what was the intended result of this whole operation?  I and anyone with half a brain would say that the only purpose could have been to try to get a lot of registered weapons into Mexico in order to justify a push to change the law and weaken the 2 amendent.  Now that might be by legislation or by executive order as Numb Nuts is so want to do.  Angry  Of course it could also be used to political advantage to show gun shop owners in a bad light even though time after time they notified ATF of these buys and where told to allow them. It could be used to rally against so called assault weapons.

Let me put it other way.  If there was an operation put into affect to allow hard drugs, some of which where paid for by taxpayer money to enter one of our cities unhindered, which lead to numerous deaths.  Do you think that some one would be held accountable and arrested. Heads would roll especially if the motive was in any way to influence present laws in the USA. I rest my case.  Wink

I'm still looking for the supposed "crime" committed by the ATF.  What is it?  Don't they set up drug and gun "stings" all the time?  Help me out here.
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Jim
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clover
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« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2011, 05:45:42 PM »

Let me give you a clue Jim....all of the money the ATF spends is TAXPAYER MONEY!  There is no crime here.....just Issa and a bunch of fanatics throwing shit on the wall to see if any will stick.  You can bet if there was a crime here the Senate would already be involved.....they're not....now get over the sensationalism and get back to work on something productive Grin
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ragman
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« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2011, 07:02:50 AM »

Everyday we find out more about this ill advised illegal operation to try to weaken the 2nd amendment on our way to Eric Holders desk.  Wink

Quote
Informant helped smuggle guns to Mexico, investigators say

By Richard A. Serrano / Tribune Washington Bureau  |   Wednesday, September 28, 2011  |  http://www.bostonherald.com  |  U.S. Politics

WASHINGTON – An FBI/DEA confidential informant helped smuggle firearms from the ATF’s Fast and Furious gun-trafficking surveillance operation to drug cartels in Mexico, according to evidence compiled by congressional investigators.
 
The investigators said the informant obtained the weapons from Manuel Celis-Acosta, considered by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to be the "biggest fish" of 20 individuals indicted in Fast and Furious. At the same time the informant was receiving large amounts of "official law enforcement funds as payment" for his services, they said.
 
Congressional investigators believe the informant was working with U.S. law enforcement over a two-year period, beginning in early 2009, and often contacted Drug Enforcement Administration agents such as Jim Roberts, the resident agent-in-charge in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, to "pass on information to these agents about Mexican drug cartels."
 
The revelations were contained in a letter Tuesday from Rep. Darrel Issa, R-Calif., chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, and Sen. Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, the top Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, to Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. They contend that had the FBI and DEA told the ATF about the informant, Fast and Furious would have been shut down much earlier.
 
Holder has said he learned of Fast and Furious after it was shut down, and did not know that ATF agents allowed more than 2,000 weapons to be illegally purchased in the Phoenix area. Many turned up at violent crime scenes in Mexico; two were recovered in December after a U.S. Border Patrol agent was killed in Arizona.
 
The letter signals that the congressional investigation is looking beyond the ATF operation and into the possibility of a major breakdown in law enforcement cooperation on the border.
 
Fast and Furious ran for 15 months, from fall 2009 to last January, and culminated in indictments in Phoenix. Among them was Celis-Acosta. Documents show that when Fast and Furious was first proposed, the ATF targeted Celis-Acosta because they said he was "believed to be supplying firearms" to a drug cartel.
 
Congressional investigators have learned that the DEA was aware of Celis-Acosta’s alleged drug trafficking activity as early as late 2009, just when Fast and Furious was getting under way, and that he was "providing hundreds of firearms to members of Mexican drug cartels." In fact, they knew Celis-Acosta allegedly was moving guns to Ciudad Juarez, south of El Paso, Texas, "but that he was uneasy about taking the guns across the border himself."
 
The FBI and DEA also knew that the informant, identified as "CI#1," was ordering weapons from Celis-Acosta and smuggling them into Mexico. That informant, "apparently the financier for Celia-Acosta’s firearms trafficking ring, later began cooperating with the FBI and may have received additional government payments as a confidential informant."
 
In one payment, the investigators learned, the U.S. government gave the informant $3,500 for his services.
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Jim
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clover
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« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2011, 09:07:21 AM »

How is this story connected to the 2nd Amendment?  Where is proof of Holder's involvement?   Another fishing expedition by Issa, wasting taxpayers time and money chasing ghosts.
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rykat
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« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2011, 09:49:49 AM »

yeah but if it involved Bush or Cheney.....well......thats another story - MUST LAUNCH INVESTIGATIONS!!
Such hypocrites!!!!!!!!!
So full of shit!!! Cheesy
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clover
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« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2011, 09:45:22 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQf_QfitmKE&feature=player_embedded#!
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rykat
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« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2011, 10:09:25 PM »

oooooooooo, like that!
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ragman
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« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2011, 07:22:22 AM »

ry, every once in a while Mike comes back to reality.  Grin  That's why I still think there is a ray of hope for him.  Wink
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Jim
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