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Author Topic: How the GOP fleeces the hard working and poor  (Read 1143 times)
clover
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« on: December 02, 2011, 10:31:41 AM »

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/01/opinion/coburn-welfare-to-wealthy/index.html?hpt=hp_bn9

Here's the facts:

http://coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=544ae3e7-195b-40ad-aa84-334fdd6a5e1f

And we wonder why there is an Occupy Wall Street movement Wink
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rykat
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2011, 08:50:08 PM »

ALL bogus bullshit presented by those who have succumbed to the trap of OTO's class warfare tactics.
Great Canadian plan the more you make (SS) the less you get as you continue to pay in, part of the reason Canada is third world.

Suck that Obama class-warfare teat dry now its all the fuc*ers got from now until next November.
The lefts got nuthin' else.
Twin relatives are on the other site Amanda and Bing!!!! Grin Grin Grin
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IMPEACH OBAMA!
clover
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2011, 09:12:13 AM »

ALL bogus bullshit presented by those who have succumbed to the trap of OTO's class warfare tactics.

I don't think you can call a foot noted report prepared by Tom Coburn (R) Oklahoma bogus bullshit Wink

Facts are always a terrible inconvenience to the right wingers.

The entire platform of the GOP IS class warfare.  Subsidies for the "job creators" while reducing pre-paid entitlements for the poor and middle class.  Coburn at least has the conscience to recognize this fact.

 
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rykat
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2011, 10:35:29 AM »

footnotes trump bogus?HuhHuh??  HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAH! YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FUC*ING KIDDING.
I could propose the most preposterous lies and fabrications on earth and footnote them. Bullshi* to support lies, way to easy.
Digging deep into the shi*pile!
Why responding here is such a waste of time and energy - the pile is too high for even the ants to reach.
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clover
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2011, 10:49:38 AM »

Millionaires receive tax earmarks and deductions crafted by both parties that allow them to write off billions each year. These write-offs include mortgage interest deductions on second homes and luxury yachts, gambling losses, business expenses, electric vehicle credits and even child care tax credits.
Meanwhile, direct handouts for millionaires have included $74 million in unemployment checks, $316 million in farm subsidies, $89 million for preservation of ranches and estates, $9 billion in retirement checks and $7.5 million to compensate for damages caused by emergencies to property that should have been insured. Millionaires have even borrowed $16 million in government-backed education loans to attend college since 2007.


I know it's hard for you guys to admit that these tax breaks and subsidies exist.  Your party platform is to blame the poor and middle class for the spending problems in America.  but facts are facts,  Check the tax codes and get back to me Wink
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ragman
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2011, 02:43:21 PM »

Hey, I have a novel idea......How about a flat tax?   Wink   But I guess what you really want to do is make the "rich" pay more.  That will make everyone feel better in the quest of class warfare. However we already know that they pay far more than any other group in total taxes: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/fact-check-the-richtheir-secretaries-and-taxes/  Now notice that I decided to quote a lame stream news outfit so as not to send you into a tizzy fit.  Wink  Mike we have a spending problem which has to be brought under control and not a revenue problem. 

Quote
The numbers change a bit if you look at total income before deductions and tax credits (Adjusted Gross Income), according to another non-partisan group, The Tax Foundation. Here’s how the numbers breakdown using IRS data from 2009 on Adjusted Gross Income for the income groups at issue in this discussion:
 
-           $10 million a year paid 22 percent.
 
-          $1 million  to $10 million paid 25 percent.
 
-          $50,000 to $75,000 paid 7 percent.
 
The rate for the middle-income filers drop because many individual deductions and tax credits are phased out for higher income taxpayers.

Millionaires receive tax earmarks and deductions crafted by both parties that allow them to write off billions each year. These write-offs include mortgage interest deductions on second homes and luxury yachts, gambling losses, business expenses, electric vehicle credits and even child care tax credits.
Meanwhile, direct handouts for millionaires have included $74 million in unemployment checks, $316 million in farm subsidies, $89 million for preservation of ranches and estates, $9 billion in retirement checks and $7.5 million to compensate for damages caused by emergencies to property that should have been insured. Millionaires have even borrowed $16 million in government-backed education loans to attend college since 2007.


I know it's hard for you guys to admit that these tax breaks and subsidies exist.  Your party platform is to blame the poor and middle class for the spending problems in America.  but facts are facts,  Check the tax codes and get back to me Wink
Now the other thing is the unintended consequences of ending some write offs like the time they imposed a luxury tax on yachts and put thousands of boat builders out of work.  It got so bad that they had to rescind the tax.  But hey that is history and won't happen again, right?

Now let’s cut the crap and evaluate just what this President has and has not accomplished in the last 3 years.  That is the real story and it is a sad story.  Sad
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Jim
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azbob
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2011, 08:31:42 PM »

We've tried that but "smoke and mirrors make you see so much better!  Grin
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clover
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 10:02:51 AM »


Now let’s cut the crap and evaluate just what this President has and has not accomplished in the last 3 years.  That is the real story and it is a sad story.  Sad


Let's cut the crap and evaluate what your Republican Congress has accomplished!

The President is the head of the executive branch. 
His job is to approve the laws that Congress creates. When the Senate and the House approve a bill, they send it to the President. If he agrees with the law, he signs it and the law goes into effect. If the President does not like a bill, he can refuse to sign it. When he does this, it is called a veto.

If the President vetoes a bill, it will most likely never become a law. Congress can override a veto, but to do so two-thirds of the Members of Congress must vote against the President.

Despite all of his power, the President cannot write bills. He can propose a bill, but a member of Congress must submit it for him. In addition to playing a key role in the lawmaking process, the President has several duties. He serves as the American Head of State, meaning that he meets with the leaders of other countries and can make treaties with them. However, the Senate must approve any treaty before it becomes official.


Newt, or Mitt will have the same "power".....remember that when they tell you all that bullshit they claim they will do when they're President Grin



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clover
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2011, 10:21:00 AM »

Now the other thing is the unintended consequences of ending some write offs like the time they imposed a luxury tax on yachts and put thousands of boat builders out of work.  It got so bad that they had to rescind the tax.  But hey that is history and won't happen again, right?


I get it now......Taxing Americans to create jobs for boat builders is acceptable..........Taxing Americans to help the poor and disadvantaged is "socialism".  The party of the 1%'ers sure has you guys fooled Wink
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ragman
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2011, 11:25:12 AM »

Now the other thing is the unintended consequences of ending some write offs like the time they imposed a luxury tax on yachts and put thousands of boat builders out of work.  It got so bad that they had to rescind the tax.  But hey that is history and won't happen again, right?


I get it now......Taxing Americans to create jobs for boat builders is acceptable..........Taxing Americans to help the poor and disadvantaged is "socialism".  The party of the 1%'ers sure has you guys fooled Wink

You don't quite get it.  Tax breaks to create employment good.  Taxing to redistribute wealth no good.   Wink  I had to keep it simple for you.   Huh
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Jim
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clover
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2011, 06:32:08 PM »

Redistribution of wealth is the transfer of income, wealth or property from some individuals to others caused by a social mechanism such as taxation, monetary policies, welfare, nationalization, charity, divorce or tort law.

So when you tax the electorate and then give their tax dollars to the rich (subsidies, tax breaks) you call that job creation.
If you tax the electorate and then give their tax dollars to the poor (subsidies, tax breaks) you call that socialism.

I see how the GOP thinks.  Give to the rich, tax the poor.  Boat builders of yachts are more important than the local diner.....it's all making sense now Grin





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azbob
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2011, 06:48:03 PM »

clover, the "poor" don't pay taxes!!!!!!!  I know 2 families who, last year, paid NO TAXES, but received refunds of several thousand dollars!!! So you theory is full of shit!!!!
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clover
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2011, 06:54:54 PM »

The really poor and the really rich don't pay taxes.......you and I do buddy........it's called the middle class!!! Wink

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/general-electric-paid-federal-taxes-2010/story?id=13224558
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2011, 07:20:23 PM »

OK, I attempted to make it simple so that you would understand Mike.  I guess I failed so ..... Lips sealed

Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes

By Stephen MooreFrom the November/December 2007 Issue

Filed under:Economic Policy, Public Square
Yes, income in America is skewed toward the rich. But taxes are skewed far, far more. The top 5 percent pay well over half the income taxes. STEPHEN MOORE has the numbers

1. Are income taxes fair?
 
That depends on who is offering the opinion. Democratic candidates for president certainly don’t think so. John Edwards has said, “It’s time to restore fairness to a tax code that has been driven badly out of whack.” Hillary Clinton laments that “middle-class and working families are paying a much higher percentage of their income [in taxes].” Over the past seven years, however, Americans in general think taxes have become more fair, not less. The Gallup Organization found in an April poll that 60 percent of respondents believe the income taxes that they themselves pay are fair, com­pared with 37 percent who believe the taxes they pay are unfair. In 1997, the figures were 51 percent fair and 43 percent unfair.

2. What income group pays the most federal income taxes today?
 
The latest data show that a big portion of the federal income tax burden is shoul­dered by a small group of the very richest Americans. The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per­cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes. These are proportions of the income tax alone and don’t include payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare.
 
3. But didn’t the Bush tax cuts favor the rich?

The New York Times reported recently that the average family in America with an income of $10 million or more received a half-million-dollar tax cut, while the middle class got crumbs (less than $100 shaved off their tax bill). If we examine the taxes paid in a static world—that is, if we assume that there was no change in behavior and economic performance as a result of the tax code—then these numbers are meaningful. Most of the tax cuts went to the super wealthy.
 
But Americans did respond to the tax cuts. There was more investment, more hiring by businesses, and a stronger stock market. When we compare the taxes paid under the old system with those paid after the Bush tax cuts, the rich are now actually paying a higher proportion of income taxes. The latest IRS data show an increase of more than $100 billion in tax payments from the wealthy by 2005 alone. The number of tax filers who claimed taxable income of more than $1 million increased from approximately 180,000 in 2003 to over 300,000 in 2005. The total taxes paid by these millionaire households rose by about 80 percent in two years, from $132 billion to $236 billion.
 
4. But haven’t the tax cuts put more of the burden on the backs of the middle class and the poor?
 
No. I examined the Treasury Department analysis of how much the rich would have paid without the Bush tax cuts and how much they actually did pay. The rich are now paying more than they would have paid, not less, after the Bush investment tax cuts. For example, the Treasury’s estimate was that the top 1 percent of earners would pay 31 percent of taxes if the Bush cuts did not go into effect; with the cuts, they actually paid 37 per­cent. Similarly, the share of the top 10 percent of earners was estimated at 63 percent without the cuts; they actually paid 68 percent.
 
5. What has happened to tax rates in America over the last several decades?

They’ve fallen. In the early 1960s, the highest marginal income tax rate was a stunning 91 percent. That top rate fell to 70 percent after the Kennedy-Johnson tax cuts and remained there until 1981. Then Ronald Reagan slashed it to 50 percent and ultimately to 28 percent after the 1986 Tax Reform Act. Although the federal tax rate fell by more than half, total tax receipts in the 1980s doubled from $517 billion in 1981 to $1,030 billion in 1990. The top tax rate rose slightly under George H. W. Bush and then moved to 39.6 percent under Bill Clinton. But under George W. Bush it fell again to 35 percent. So what’s striking is that, even as tax rates have fallen by half over the past quarter-century, taxes paid by the wealthy have increased. Lower tax rates have made the tax system more progressive, not less so. In 1980, for example, the top 5 percent of income earners paid only 37 percent of all income taxes. Today, the top 1 percent pay that proportion, and the top 5 percent pay a whopping 57 percent.
 
6. What is the economic logic behind these lower tax rates?

As legend has it, the famous “Laffer Curve” was first drawn by economist Arthur Laffer in 1974 on a cocktail napkin at a small dinner meeting attended by the late Wall Street Journal editor Robert Bartley and such high-powered policymakers as Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. Laffer showed how two different rates—one high and one low—could produce the same revenues, since the higher rate would discourage work and investment. The Laffer Curve helped launch Reaganomics here at home and ignited a frenzy of tax cutting around the globe that continues to this day. It’s also one of the simplest concepts in economics: lowering the tax rate on production, work, investment, and risk-taking will spur more of these activities and will often produce more tax revenue rather than less. Since the Reagan tax cuts, the United States has created some 40 million new jobs—more than all of Europe and Japan combined.
 
7. Are lower tax rates responsi­ble for the big budget deficits of recent decades?
 
There is no correlation between tax rates and deficits in recent U.S. history. The spike in the federal deficit in the 1980s was caused by massive spending increases.
 
The Congressional Budget Office reports that, since the 2003 tax cuts, federal revenues have grown by $745 billion—the largest real increase in history over such a short time period. Individual and corporate income tax receipts have jumped by 30 percent in the two years since the tax cuts.
 
8. Do the rich pay more taxes because they are earning more of the income in America?
 
Yes. There’s no doubt that the share of total income earned by the wealthy has increased steadily over the past 25 years. Since 1980, the share of income earned by the richest 1 percent has more than doubled, from 9 percent to 19 percent. The share of the income going to the poorest income quintile has declined. Income disparities, in absolute dollars, have grown substantially.
 
What is significant is that for the top 5 percent and 10 percent of earners, the ratio of taxes paid compared with income earned has risen. For example, in 1980, the top 10 percent earned 32 percent of the income and paid 44 percent of the taxes—a ratio of 1.4. In 2004, this group earned more of the income (44 percent) but paid a lot more of the taxes (68 percent)—a ratio of 1.6. In other words, progressivity—in terms of share of total taxes paid—has risen. On the other hand, for the top 1 percent of earners, progressivity has declined from a ratio of 2.2 in 1980 to 1.9 in 2004.
 
9. Have gains by the rich come at the expense of a declining living standard for the middle class?
 
No. If Bill Gates suddenly took his tens of billions of dollars and moved to France, income distribution in America would temporarily appear more equitable, even though no one would be better off. Median family income in America between 1980 and 2004 grew by 17 percent. The middle class (defined as those between the 40th and the 60th percentiles of income) isn’t falling behind or “disappearing.” It is getting richer. The lower income bound for the middle class has risen by about $12,000 (after inflation) since 1967. The upper income bound for the middle class is now roughly $68,000—some $23,000 higher than in 1967. Thus, a family in the 60th percentile has 50 percent more buying power than 30 years ago. To paraphrase John F. Kennedy, this has been a “rising tide” expansion, with most (though not all) boats lifted.
 
10. Does the tax distribu­tion look a lot different if we factor in other federal taxes, such as the payroll tax?
 
It’s true that the distribution of taxes is somewhat more equally divided when payroll taxes are accounted for—but the change is surprisingly small. Payroll taxes of 15 percent are charged on the first dollar of income earned by a worker, and most of the tax is capped at an income of just below $100,000. The Tax Policy Center, run by the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution, recently studied payroll and income taxes paid by each income group. The richest 1 percent pay 27.5 percent of the combined burden, the top 20 percent pay 72 percent, and the bottom 20 percent pay just 0.4 percent. One reason that the disparity in tax shares is so large is that Americans in the bottom quintile who have jobs get reimbursed for some or all of their 15 percent payroll tax through the earned-income tax credit (EITC), a fairly efficient poverty-abatement program.
 
11. How do tax rates in the United States compare with tax rates abroad?
 
Overall, taxes are between 10 percent and 20 percent lower in the United States than they are in most other industrial nations. This gives America a competitive edge in world markets. But America’s lead in low tax rates is shrinking. For example, the United States now has the second-highest corporate income tax in the developed world, after Japan. Our personal income tax rate is still low by historical standards. But in recent years many European and Pacific Rim nations have been slashing income taxes—there are now ten Eastern European nations with flat-tax rates between 12 percent and 25 percent—while the political pressure in Washington, D.C., is to raise them.
 
12. Do tax cuts on investment income, such as George W. Bush’s reductions in tax rates on capital gains and dividends, pri­marily benefit wealthy stockowners?
 
The New York Times reported that America’s millionaires raked in 43 percent of the investment tax cut benefits in 2003. It’s true that lower tax rates have been a huge boon to shareholders—but most of them are not rich. The latest polls show that 52 percent of Americans own stock and thus benefit directly from lower capital gains and dividend taxes. Reduced tax rates on dividends also triggered a huge jump in the number of companies paying out dividends. As the National Bureau of Economic Research put it, “The surge in regular dividend payments after the 2003 reform is unprecedented in recent years.” Dividend income is up nearly 50 percent since the 2003 tax cut.
 
The same phenomenon occurred with the capital gains tax, which is essentially a voluntary tax because asset owners can avoid it by simply holding onto their stock, home, or business. This “lock-in” effect, as it is called, can be economically inefficient, since owners have a tax incentive to keep poor investments, rather than drawing out the cash and putting it into assets that are more productive. When the capital gains tax is cut, people unlock their assets and reinvest in other enterprises.
 
The 1997 tax reform, passed under President Clinton, reduced the capital gains tax rate from 28 percent to 20 percent, and taxable capital gains nearly doubled over the next three years. The 2003 reform brought the rate down to 15 percent, and between 2002 and 2005 there was a 154 percent increase in capital gains reported as income.
 
This explosion in realized gains cannot be explained only by the rise in the stock market, which averaged just 13 percent annually between 2003 and 2005. Capital gains tax receipts also far outpaced the revenues that the government’s static models predicted. Between 2003 and 2007, actual tax receipts exceeded expectations by $207 billion.
 
Stephen Moore is senior economics writer for the Wall Street Journal editorial board and a contrib­utor to CNBC TV. He was the founder of the Club for Growth and has served as a fiscal policy analyst at the Cato Institute and the Heritage Foundation. His latest book is “Bullish on Bush: How George Bush’s Ownership Society Will Make America Stronger” (Madison Books).
 

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Jim
You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
ordep2
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 12:43:05 PM »

  Current European Tax Rates!!!!!!!!

UK
Income Tax:  50%
   VAT:  17.5%   TOTAL:  67.5%

France
Income Tax:  40%
   VAT:  19.6%   TOTAL:  59.6%

Greece
Income Tax:  40%
   VAT:  25%      TOTAL:  65%

Spain
Income Tax:  45%
  VAT:  16%      TOTAL:  61%

Portugal
Income Tax:  42%
   VAT:  20%      TOTAL:  62%

Sweden
Income Tax:  55%
   VAT:  25%      TOTAL:  80%

Norway
Income Tax:  54.3%
   VAT:  25%      TOTAL:  79.3%

Netherlands
Income Tax:  52%
   VAT:  19%      TOTAL:  71%

Denmark
Income Tax:  58%
   VAT:  25%      TOTAL:  83%

Finland
Income Tax:  53%

    VAT:  22%      TOTAL:  75%


If you've started to wonder what the real costs of socialism are going to be, once the full program in these United States hits your
wallet, take a look at the table.  As you digest these mind-boggling figures, keep in mind that in spite of these astronomical tax rates,
these countries are still not financing their social welfare programs exclusively from tax revenues!  They are deeply mired in public debt
of gargantuan proportions.  Greece has reached the point where its debt is so huge it is in imminent danger of defaulting.  That is the
reason the European economic community has intervened to bail them out.  If you're following the financial news, you know Spain and
Portugal are right behind Greece.


The United States is now heading right down the same path.  The VAT tax in the table is the national sales tax that Europeans pay. Stay tuned because that is exactly what you can expect to see proposed after the fall elections.  The initial percentage in the United States isn't going to be anywhere near the outrageous numbers you now see in Europe.  Guess what, the current outrageous numbers in Europe didn't start out as outrageous either.  They started out as miniscule right around the 1% or 2% where they will start out in the United States. Magically however, they ran up over the years to where they are now. Expect the same thing here.


It is the notion that with hard work and perseverance, anybody can get ahead economically here.  Do you think that can ever happen with tax rates between 60% and 80%?  Think again.  With the government taking that percentage of your money, your life will be exactly like life in Europe.  You will never be able to buy a home.  You will never buy a car.  You will never send your children to college.  Let's not shuffle the battle cry of the socialists under the rug either.  Its always the same cry.  Equalize income.  Spread the wealth to the poor (whoever they are).  Level the economic playing field.  Accomplish that and everything will be rosy.


Its time to take a really hard look at reality.  Greece is a perfect example.  Despite the socialism system that has ruled this country for
decades, with a 65% tax rate, they are drowning in public debt, would have defaulted without hundreds of billions in bailout money, and
still. . .20% of their population lives in poverty.  What has all that socialism money bought, besides ultimate power for the politicians
running the show?  Do you think these people are "free"?  They're not.  They are slaves to their economic "system."




 
 
 
 
 


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