Iran

[ragman]

Iran and its policies have many implications for the USA and the world.  How do we deal with them?  How do we contain them?  Could their actions eventually lead to a World War?

They had a troubling election a short while ago and we may have lost an opportunity to help their people change their leaders.  The President would not support them and remained silent during the protest.  Now comes this article in today's Boston Globe.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2009/10/06/us_cutoff_of_funding_to_iran_human_rights_cause_signals_shift/

But just as the Iran Human Rights Documentation Center was ramping up to investigate abuses of protesters after this summer’s disputed presidential election, the group received word that - for the first time since it was formed - its federal funding request had been denied.

“If there is one time that I expected to get funding, this was it,’’ said Rene Redman, the group’s executive director, who had asked for $2.7 million in funding for the next two years. “I was sur prised, because the world was watching human rights violations right there on television.’’

Many see the sudden, unexplained cutoff of funding as a shift by the Obama administration away from high-profile democracy promotion in Iran, which had become a signature issue for President Bush. But the timing has alarmed some on Capitol Hill.

“The Iran Human Rights Documentation Center is at the forefront of pioneering and vitally important work,’’ said Senator Joe Lieberman, a Connecticut independent, in a statement yesterday. “

It is disturbing that the State Department would cut off funding at precisely the moment when these brave investigations are needed most.’�

[h2odog]

That's what's friggin wrong Ragman.....there are homeless in the streets of America...people are dying from lack of access to health care and you right wing war monger zealots want to change the leadership in Iran.........get a gun and go do it your self and quit sending fine young men to die for this insane horsehit you feel so righteous about....the world policeman mantra is what's wrong with you guys......we  .....don't....own...the ...world.

[ragman]

Dog,  Iran will have to be dealt with one way or another.  I would rather enable the opposition in Iran.  The people themselves are fairly westernized and educated but the leaders are fanatics.

If left alone to advance there nuclear capabilities they will menace their neighbors (much more than they already do) which will eventually get us involved.  We know they are causing many problems in that part of the world now.  What happens if they threathen our oil supplies by conflicts or war in the Middle East.

Now that gets to our difference.  Do you think that if we leave them alone they will leave us alone and play nice? If we don't try to reign them in there is a good possibility of another country over there doing it and it won't be nice.

[2Aggies]

 I do not know of one single person in the armed forces who is not there by choice. It's a all volunteer army dog. Quit talking about them with your point of view. They find it insulting to hear someone say they are over there for nothing. I have met literally hundreds of soldiers in the last few years. They are ALL proud to serve their country.

I too am tired of this war and think it should have a conclusion. I too think USA should be taking care of our own first. I remember too well the feeling in the days following 9-11. We came together as a nation and were outraged at the violation of our safety here at home. While the initial goal of ridding the world of true war mongers was great, we can never do it. As soon as one dies another takes his place. We must find a middle ground and protect our country, but quit trying to run others.

[ragman]

ABC news 10/6/09  Is the U.S. Preparing to Bomb Iran?
Is the U.S. Stepping Up Preparations for a Possible Attack on Iran's Nuclear Facilities?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-preparing-bomb-iran/story?id=8765343

Special emergency appropriation to fund "Bunker Busting Bombs"

Maybe even this administration agrees with my point of view that Iran and North Korea must to held in check.

[peterbj7]

I'd be surprised if many American servicemen weren't in Iraq against their will.  I know that's the case with British servicemen.

That said, I don't see this conflict or the one in Afghanistan as winnable, and some way should be found of pulling out of both places.  You can be sure that those countries will go back to their old ways as soon as we're gone.

[Moose in Belize]

Maybe if the USA stopped tying to bully the rest of the world into living by their set of rules, stopped trying to control other countries' natural resources, dropped the arrogant "we are the greatest and most powerful country in the world and you have to do it our way" bullshit, concentrated more on their own social and cultural issues, then maybe, just maybe, terrorists from other countries would stop taking payback shots at USA interests. Americans are generally so egotistic and patriotic to a fault, that they just don't see the big picture. Sorry folks, but you are not loved outside your own borders. The bullied will always backstab the bully if given the chance.

[pedro]

moose and there I thought you were going to avoid this particular forum

[Moose in Belize]

moose and there I thought you were going to avoid this particular forum

I just thought it needed a little pot stirring and the humble opinion of an outside observer. I'm outta here. 

[ragman]

Moose, in a perfect world of course you are right.  Like it or not the US is the only courtry right now strong enough and willing to stop evil.  It is not what we do that makes certain countries in the Middle not like us, it is what we stand for. 

If Iran wiped Israel off the face of the map do you think they would be satisfied?  For about one minute maybe and then it would be on to ?  If Iran and to a less extent Syria acted responsible the Middle East problems would be a lot smaller.  And yes the USA has made mistakes but that doesn't really change anything. 

[pedro]

lets see the biggest problem is Saudia Arabia/Israel/Syria/Palestine/Iran/Iraq/Kuwait/Afghanistan/Pakistan-they don't like us -we don't like them but they in the majority have the oil and the big american companies love that -so they can do what they like as long as we believe there is no substitute for oil as the big companies tell us this -these countries can kill as many coalition forces as they want

Heroin in Canada/USA/Europe is the easiest drug to procure at an all time low price-Afghan-a young guy on the streets of Atlanta read anywhere in the U.S. and he goes to jail for 10-25 years costing the taxpayers 50.000usd a year to keep him incarcerated-yet the american/brit/can/european govts actually support the growin/cultivating/exporting of said drug

How many substitutes for oil are there who knows but there are probably 000s as the large oil companies buy all the patents and keep themselves and their middle eastern partners getting to multi billionaire status-

The big companies do not give a shit about wars famine atrocities just MONEY is what they want and what they get and we are just too dumb to see it

[ragman]

Peter,  I spent almost 40 years in the Electric Generation business and I can tell you that we could make it a lot better but I'm afraid it is going to take a real crisis.  Nuclear is the answer today.  Wind/Solar and whatever are not going to get the job totally done, is expensive and a long way off. Maybe if they push we will get 20% electric generation from wind/solar by 2030. We have plenty of coal and until recently a lot of coal gasification research was going on.  Because of the relatively low price of oil and the lower price for gas there isn't much interest in alternatives at this time. (this is what always happens, when the price comes down)

The USA does not have a reasonable energy policy and the present administration despite all the noise is not moving ahead.  Cap and Trade will be a killer and make matters worst economically.  It is just a tax because there isn't a good alternative.  The rest of the world is smarter than us in persuing Nuclear while our plants are aging and there are not too many in planning.  About 2 years ago I was talking to an Engineering Professor I deal with frequently who is in a position to know.  He told me that about 35 Nuclear plants where in advance stages of planning.  The other day I was talking to a good friend who work for an Engineering Company who plans some of these plants and the number of plants that will be built (when?) is now down to 10 in his opinion.

[2Aggies]

Moose - it would suit me to a T if we pulled all of our forces home and stationed them on our own borders. We could also pull every FREAKIN penny of global aide and spend it right here in the country you obviously hate. Everyone hates the USA until a disaster strikes or one of the bully countries starts to take them over. What do you think you would pay for fuel if the USA hadn't developed and explored for natural resources?

And you are DAMN right I am very patriotic. My family has been giving their lives for generations so we can enjoy the freedoms we have today. I am DAMN proud of that.

Shit, now I need a beer!

[azbob]

 
Iran will have to be dealt with by someone at some point in time.  Iran is another fanatical regime   that will have no problem using nuclear weapons against 1st Israel and then against whoever does not agree with them, even their Moslem neighbors.

Israel is locked and loaded and sitting on the tarmac and they will do a preemptive strike.  Jordan will “look the other way” as Israel jets and bombers fly over. They will need US clearance across Iraq air space and advance fighters to take out the Iranian (Russian provided) missile defense. 

Israel has no choice but to deal with Iran or be “wiped off the face of the earth”(Iran’s Ayatollah’s words).  There are those who do not believe Israel has the bunker busting bombs and fire power to do the job right.  Israel wants it that way.  Never, never underestimate their capabilities!

The US will have to be involved and Obama has more than he can handle now.
“The least that can be said about this is that the Obama administration and Israel are trying to reshape the negotiations with the Iranians and Russians. The most that can be said is that the Americans and Israelis are preparing the public for war.” (Stratford).  This is reference to the “leaks” in the New York Times and the British Sunday Times regarding the Russian scientist working with the Iranians.

IMO, opposition world leaders see Obama as weak and he will be sorely tested very soon.  It will be chaos if not handled correctly and that is my fear.

[h2odog]

At least you admit it's just your opinion!