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Author Topic: US Healthcare system  (Read 5085 times)
DrKyle
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2009, 09:49:52 PM »

Yes, we need reform.  We don't need health care reform, we need government reform.  We need the government to get the hell out the way and let patients and doctors make decisions.

But, all of these are red herrings; the most important thing is this:  government has NO BUSINESS being involved in health care.  It is not a legitimate function of government.  There can be no moral justification for taxation in order to redistribute wealth, and that is precisely the aim and result of government health care. 

 
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Otteralum
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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2009, 05:46:31 AM »

Yes, but there is a constitutional role in government regulation of interstate commerce.  This is where government can play a good role in my opinion. 

I realize this is also the excuse being used to control the whole damn thing.
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BettyJ
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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2009, 10:12:17 AM »

Just to clarify a few points:
The US government is already involved in Healthcare.  The single largest payor is Medicare and it is nothing BUT red tape and inefficiencies (what else can you expect when it is Government run?).  Medicaid is administered (and partially funded by Federal dollars) through the states and covers those too young to qualify for Medicare.  There are GREAT disparities from state to state on coverage (just like Canada is not the same in every providence). 

The Obama plan is to partially fund the new system by going back and cleaning up Medicare (great plan, eh?) and prosecuting those providers inappropriate billing / committing fraud by retrospectively reviewing claims and applying current Medicare guideline interpretations to past claims (trust me there is a difference as the rules and "interpretations of the guidelines by the Medicare Fiscal Intermediaries" are a moving target).  Why don't we just clarify the rules and stop the abuse now?  Guess that would make too much sense.... 

I guess it could be compared to the plan to increase revenue by hiring all of those additional IRS agents to "go after" the bad guys who haven't paid their fair share according to the latest interpretation of tax laws.  I would venture a guess that many of these people simply don't have money, so guess they will be filling up our prison systems.  Call me silly, but I am pretty sure that these guys (and girls) have a pretty small earning potential behind bars.  But I digress...

Ok, God, the statistics are flawed - the US does have more premature births than norm (which contributes to the mortality rate) and popularity of fertility treatments in the US is playing a part.  The other factors are not as clear, but could be due to more diligent reporting on miscarrages than other countries. 

Clearly you have never been in a neonatal intensive care unit in the US.  Although, these units are notorious "losers" when it come to cost/ payment (due in part to many of the high risk mothers - drug addicted, fetal alcohol syndrome, etc), the technology and clinical expertise is highly advanced and continues to be a priority for the industry, even when there is no payment on extremely expensive services.  Sick babies born in rural areas are more at risk because they have to be transported to larger cities with these capabilities.  Some of these are unexpected, but many others could have been prevented.  Really not sure how you can force high risk, drug addicted mothers to receive the free prenatal care that is publicly funded... 

I know of one of these grant funded public health clinics (looks like a palace) in South Atlanta that actually has to "bribe" mothers with gifts to enroll and actually make their appointments!  Of course the funding is tied to number of patients treated... probably another Acorn program Sad

So, I believe that we are all in agreement that babies are our future and the innocent ones as they didn't ask to be born.  So you can probably calm down now about babies being left to die because they don't have insurance.  It is simply not true.     
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GOD
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« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2009, 12:03:48 PM »

I think it is agreed that not many people in the US are left to die.  This is simply the SHOCK and AWE portion of my speech.  Let's not pretend that I am a liberal or even a Dem for that matter.  I am simply a sensible American who is sick and tired of individuals taking sides on topics based only on the party trying to implement them.

The point being made is that in the end removing everything to do with the current health care programs (government funded) and starting with a system that would force every American to have health care (either private or public) is a good thing.  It is the only way for the government and private institutions to stop footing the bill for those that don't have the insurance in the first place.

We are all paying for the uninsured today so let's force everyone to be insured in someway.  That will give babies a fair chance it will give the elderly a fair chance and if someone feels they don't need health care (I don't see why you would not want it) tuff!

Obviously this is not what is currently being planned but in the end it will be what is done.  Not this year not next year but down the road it is the only fair way to handle the situation.  If the government does not run it great I am sure that one of the large insurance companies would consider it and simply do it at a reasonable cost taking into account those that do not have the money to pay for it.

Nobody wants to mortgage their house in the hopes that they will be able to stave off cancer and then trouble loved ones with the burden of paying it off when they die. 

We all want the same thing so lets try a constructive discussion and simply not dismiss something because it was not initiated by you party of preference.  We need to start somewhere and most republicans are just saying no instead of saying well what if we do this.





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deadserious
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« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2009, 12:22:15 PM »

starting with a system that would force every American to have health care (either private or public) is a good thing. 

Forcing anything on anyone is not a good thing in any sense of the word.  In fact it sounds very fascist to me.
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GOD
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« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2009, 12:27:44 PM »

2 Aggies;

Health Care is not just defined by births and deaths.  It is also about proactive care.  Don't just sit around and wait for crack victims to have kids but talk to them before hand.  Stop the problem before it happens.  Let me just say something to you " YOU ARE PAYING FOR IT NOW".  did you hear that or should I repeat for you.

a large portion of what all of us pay for health care is to support those that don't pay so why not formalize the agreement.  It might make things cheaper for everyone.

On another note even though I live in Belize I am an American Citizen and I will not be told to leave or stay by someone with the name 2 Aggie's.  Don't take it personal ( or do I don't care) but I think most Americans agree with me.

So someday when you get over the fact your hero GWB is no longer in office and that a Black American  man is now your supreme leader then we can continue this conversation. In the meantime you can always fall back on the one constant you have and that is that Texas A & M will have another loosing season.




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GOD
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« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2009, 12:31:37 PM »

If you want to drive a car you have to have a drivers license?  If you want to leave the country you have to have a passport?  Kids have to go to school?  Sounds like fascism to me!

I think I will give up on all of you now since it does not seem that logic is in your vocabulary.

Maybe that's it.  You have been ruled by GWB for so long you are used to nothing making any sense.



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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2009, 12:38:07 PM »

If you want to drive a car you have to have a drivers license?  If you want to leave the country you have to have a passport?  Kids have to go to school?  Sounds like fascism to me!

I don't have to drive a car.  Therefore do not need a drivers license.  I do not have to leave the country, so therefore do not need a passport.  Kids do not have to go to school, they can be home schooled. 

I think I will give up on all of you now since it does not seem that logic is in your vocabulary.

Logic is the only language I know.

Maybe that's it.  You have been ruled by GWB for so long you are used to nothing making any sense.

GWB was the most fascist presidents to take office in our country's history.  Ever hear of the Patriot Act???
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GOD
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« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2009, 12:49:18 PM »

The GWB thing was not directed towards you. I think you made your position on him clear in a previous post.  Thanks for the reiteration though.  I guess I can find some comfort in that.

You don't have to live in the US either!

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2Aggies
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« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2009, 03:05:00 PM »

2 Aggies;

Health Care is not just defined by births and deaths.  It is also about proactive care.  Don't just sit around and wait for crack victims to have kids but talk to them before hand.  Stop the problem before it happens.  Let me just say something to you " YOU ARE PAYING FOR IT NOW".  did you hear that or should I repeat for you.

a large portion of what all of us pay for health care is to support those that don't pay so why not formalize the agreement.  It might make things cheaper for everyone.

On another note even though I live in Belize I am an American Citizen and I will not be told to leave or stay by someone with the name 2 Aggie's.  Don't take it personal ( or do I don't care) but I think most Americans agree with me.

So someday when you get over the fact your hero GWB is no longer in office and that a Black American  man is now your supreme leader then we can continue this conversation. In the meantime you can always fall back on the one constant you have and that is that Texas A & M will have another loosing season.

Aside from the fact that you are an ass, I believe I know more about the USA health care system than you realize. And please do not repeat any of your comments as once is enough. You have proven to everyone reading your comments you have little ground to stand on by making personal attacks and weak ones at that.
Chosing to make reference to my board name rather than discussing an issue you brought up shows ignorance.  I never mentioned GWB or the President, you must have been thinking of another post. You must have hidden issues, since you are the one referring to a Supreme leader.
And I am sure everyone is impressed with your reference to college football when I called you out on your bullshit numbers and lack of sources. So try sticking to the points you made without credibility.
By the way are you JHill, Danny2, or or one of the other assholes  I had on ignore on the other board?
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deadserious
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« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2009, 03:18:51 PM »

You don't have to live in the US either!

I'm working on leaving.
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GOD
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« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2009, 04:12:07 PM »

2 Aggies;

Sorry to have to resort to your college football prowess but that's what happens when you tell someone to leave their country.  In regards to you lack of desire to change as I have said there are certainly a majority of Americans that don't feel the same way 72% (SOURCE!!!!!!!!!!!CBS News/New York Times Survey Shows Most Americans Approve Of Government Intervention In Health Care Coverage June 20th, 2009 http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/CBSPOLL_June09a_health_care.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody).  


I always get a kick when someone tells me how my number is wrong and their number is right because of this or that.


Anyway my mortality numbers came from three different places but the focus was on the SOURCE!!!!!!! numbers from from the UN.org Population division and you can look over the 441 page document at: http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/worldmortality/WMR2005.pdf (sorry there are no pretty pictures for you to look at).

Your not taking any of this personally are you?

I made no reference (derogatory) to your board name other than to say what it was I did however deduce by the picture of you HOLDING AN A&M TOWEL UNDERWATER that you might be a fan.  Since I did go to school at THE University of TEXAS that makes you and your simplistic beliefs the enemy.

By the way I am neither of the folks to whom you refer but if they don't like you then I should probably get to know them.

If you are looking for any other sources please feel free to PM me as I am sure that everyone is tired of listening to this including myself.
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GOD
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« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2009, 04:13:41 PM »

DS,

When you get here I will buy you a drink and then force you to listen to more propaganda.
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BettyJ
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« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2009, 05:28:26 PM »

GOD is DOG spelled backwards...   

You mentioned "talking" to the crack addicted mother as a prevention.  Not sure if you knew, but the US already has free preventative care for the poor - it's called Public Health and it is nation-wide.  The education and literature produced (and funded by our tax dollars) is enormous.  Not sure if it's really working out that well...

I am not clear why we would want Insurance companies running healthcare, but trust, me, this is the worst idea yet (and my view has nada to do with GWB or any political party).  It would be interesting to look at the mortality rates of those with insurance as compared to those without commercial coverage.  I am betting there is little difference...

So, tell me, GOD, how is it that Healthcare is such a vital need for survival, yet we have children living on the streets, tent cities, etc?  How is it that HC ranks above the provision of food and shelter? 

Let me paint a picture for you:
A premature child is born in Texas to a drug addicted mother.  The infant is critically ill and requires months of intensive care (to the tune of 2 million dollars).  The infant is ready to be discharged, there is no address for home care to be delivered, although the judge has agreed that the mother should have custody (even though the child is adoptable).  So, the "system" has invested millions of dollars on this child's future, yet, no funds for the child to be placed in a safe environment.  The hospital by law cannot discharge the child and because it still has medical needs, it becomes a ward of the hospital (where the mother can visit whenever she wants - high or not).  The hospital now has to take whatever dollars Medicaid "coughs up" for the long term care of a chronically ill infant.  The hospital system loses, but the child is the real loser here...  The US Healthcare system gets a bad rap, but they are working within very unreasonable laws and regulations and making up for poor services elsewhere.  The government is the issue - we need less of it not more!

     
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GOD
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« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2009, 07:02:19 PM »

Your reference to DOG is not upsetting considering I hold the three I have in high regard (compared to some humans) (no insinuation at all merely a statement).

So do you think that is what should happen (talking about the picture you painted)?  Read everything before you post not just the things that make you mad.  Sounds like you want change as much as everyone else.  Sounds like you agree that the system is not working.  By the way the 2 million you were speaking of for the baby was that for the aspirin?

Not sure who should be in charge. My only opinion is that I support a universal public option and private options for those who feel they can do better.  I support All Americans having Health Insurance (at some sort of reasonable rate). That's all.  I don't like the current system in the US and think that there are plenty of systems around the world that are better.

The Health care issue is what is wrong with our country.  It is run by companies and policies that not many people understand (Banks, Mortgage companies, etc.) and they have been doing whatever they want for too long.

Every American should have Health Insurance. 

I don't support Unemployment Benefits, or Welfare but something tells me we should be able to be healthy.

I guess I'm just an old softy.
 











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